graphic design, freelancing, illustration, advertising, web design

Not being a designer but someone who is commissioning a new dynamic website (in the day job), we have ended up using a ‘desgner’ to do the front end and ‘programming team’ to do the back end. However, both companies that we are using also offer what the other company is doing. We felt though that the one company offered better ‘back end’ while the other offered better ‘design’.

The diffiuclty now is getting them to synergise what they have both created.

So personally we have seperated the process.

I personally would vote for the Dynamic website option. However, having a basic knowledge of creating static pages would be of great help.

Coz being a designer for over 7 yrs and knowing the fact that i have never been good at programing. It’s been almost a year since i first decide to move my website to WP(as CMS). And i still haven’t been able to.

Cheers,
Sanjeev

Start where you feel comfrotable. For me it began with static HTML and CSS to get an overall feel for website design. I’ve since starting moving into CMS/PHP space and adapting my skills accordingly.

Regarding the first question: I think it is a very good idea to start learning with static HTML sites and use CSS to apply the design. If you get a good grounding that way, when you move into CMSs it will be easier to understand the markup language that’s used in the templating engine - and indeed understand what implications your changes are going to have down the line.

Regarding the second question: I still see a need for static sites for some small businesses. Although clients often think they need a full dynamic site, they may only need a static site with one or two sections that are dynamic (news and case studies for example) - or maybe a blog integrated into the site. Having said this, I would only attempt to build a static site in something like Dreamweaver as it does a pretty good job of managing the links and templates for you.

I think think there is a destrinction between a ‘web designer’ who can play around with photoshop to make great flat visuals, buttons, etc and then put them into a good solid static HTML page using sound CSS - and a ‘web developer’ who can build bespoke PHP applications and modify and hack WordPress and Joomla to their hearts content.

Ofter the visual folk (designers) aren’t to hot with the technical side, and the technical folk (developers) can really design very well. It’s a balance and people are usually better at one side then the other. That said, if you can balance both skills and become proficient all round then I think you make yourself a very employable prospect.

Hi Darren, thanks for your input - its interesting to hear that a client has actually separated the process. I can imaging that must be quite hard to co-ordinate?

Sanjeev, Thanks for your comment, I have a post coming up soon about Wordpress as a CMS (with help from a Wordpress Expert) you may be interested in.

Hi Rob, I have been tweaking wordpress themes/sites but never actually built a website from scratch (even a static one) by hand coding. I previously used to use Freeway a WYSIWYG but found I wanted to know how/why things worked.

Hi Paul, Thanks for your comment and your email. I see that you still recommend building static sites, with perhaps a few dynamic pages. Do you usually use a standard CMS for the dynamic pages or make your own?

I belive new web designers should start with basic sites. I think learning to do dynamic websites will be a faster to learn if you have these basic skills. Note- I know a photographer who uses a DSLR. But he has no idea about camera formats, the development process and has never been in a dark room. How can he be a photographer without photographic knowledge. I belive this to be the same for a web builder, why have the dynamic know how without the basic. I’m not a web builder but i know my XHTML and so should a web builder.

I think if you’re a total newbie, it’s good to start with a static site (bog standard html pages). This will help improve your skills as a designer / front end coder, and boost your confidence (hey, I’m getting the hang of this!).

As you progress, I think a dynamic site is important because it adds that oh-so-valuable aspect to your website: interactivity.

Can I ask you a question? Why do you blog? What is it that makes you continue blogging? I’m guessing part of your answer would be “the feedback”. Visitors like to be able to comment on blog entries. They like to feel part of the action. By granting your visitors the ability to comment on your blog entries, you are also increasing your knowledge / networking. You can learn from your visitors (because they may bring up points you’d never even though of) and you get to hear from new people. If they leave their URL, you’ll go and visit their site, no? Then, you can learn about them and the way they do things, follow their links, and so forth and so forth.

It’s not always essential to be able to code your own CMS from scratch (using PHP or whatever). A CMS such as wordpress simply makes updating your site a lot easier for you.

I think it’s important to understand the relationship between the ‘back-end’ stuff and the ‘front-end’ stuff. How does the PHP affect your site? What can you tweak to improve your site? How can you customise the layout of your site to get it exactly the way you want?

Yeah, that’s my two cents. ^_^

I think it’s pretty important to start with static sites. Getting a firm grasp on layout, typography, etc. with non-changing type will help in later designing dynamic sites. That being said, It’s way more fun to work with dynamic content!

I think it’s probably easier to know how to implement pre-written code to make a site dynamic. There are plenty of free to use pieces of Javascript, PHP etc. out there that will add all sorts of dynamic features to a site. Knowing the basics of PHP and Javascript are all that is needed to use these. I’m not entirely certain someone can be a good designer AND a good developer. I used to work as a web designer/developer myself and it soon became clear it’s best to just focus on one aspect, so i’m now a graphic design student. Best leaving the development to someone who really knows what they’re doing whilst maintaining a basic understanding of how the development side works.

I feel strongly that someone new to the web world should definitely start with static sites. You need to learn the hardships of manually writing every tag and attribute in order to fully appreciate the benefits of dynamic structures. Plus, dynamic sites should be seen as an evolution of static sties, meaning that knowledge and experience of different aspects and components of static sites are still an essential part of making dynamic sites.

As for whether anybody still wants static sites - of course they do. However, I think the meaning of a static site has had its own makeover with the advent of new technologies and conventions. I think the truth is that nothing is really quite as ’static’ as we think anymore, and that even with the most common static site-building practices, we add elements that make a site dynamic only to the extent that it is needed by the client.

Ok, I’m really dejected now. I posted a lengthy comment and hit submit.

The next page informed that I needed to enter the anti-spam work, so I hit the back button.

I returned to an empty comment box, rather than one with my post in it.

Bummer.

Is there a way that this can be avoided?

Did you press the back button on the page, or the back button in your browser? Try hitting the ‘backspace’ button on your keyboard, that normally saves the stuff…

I think that you should always start from the roots and work your way up. Just like in photography, you always learn Black and white first and then move on to color and digital. As far as web design goes, html and css will probably not need to be hand coded very often anymore but we will only advance to using other languages with more frequency such as ajax etc.

It sounds like most people are saying start static, and I agree. It’s best to get a handle on the structure of HTML and CSS first.

You asked some really good questions! When I stopped to think about it, it does seem that most websites aren’t static anymore. But I don’t think that’s necessarily true. Just because a site is built with a .php extention doesn’t mean it’s fully dynamic. I use the PHP require() function to create a library of common items like the shell of the website (navigation and such) but that’s the only part that is “dynamic.”

And Aaron makes an excellent point about the difference between a programmer who can use filters in Photoshop and a true designer. Rarely is the creative professional the same as the code monkey ;p I have noticed many job descriptions requiring a “designer” but really meaning a “programmer/developer who knows Photoshop.”

But then you get into the whole usability and SEO thing… to be truly on top, websites these days are rarely built by just one person. You need someone to design, someone to do the backend, someone to write copy (and real Web-friendly copy), someone to be an information architect, someone to test the usability… Many times several people can hold the same job, but all jobs done by one person? The website won’t be the best. You know, jack of all trades, master of none sort of thing.

So I suppose the question is: What part do you want to be the best at? I’m guessing you, Tara, would say the design, with a little bit of usability.

1. Should we be learning to design dynamic websites or start with basic static sites?

If you want to design, then design your heart out. If you want to be into more development, then learn how to dabble into web development but rather apply that knowledge into designing GOOD interactive web sites. Better to excel at one thing than to try and do everything (at least that is what the business folk say).

Now if you want to do more development, start with static sites!!! (Who said they’re basic?) Good markup will never be out-dated. I wouldn’t recommend going into programming until markup is done correctly. Also, I would LEARN server-side programming. Even if you end up using a CMS, it’ll be much easier to use, implement, and edit if you know server-side programming. CMS system isn’t a substitute for programming, it’s meant to be a substitute for clients having to learn FTP and code. The developer on the other hand, better know the code. It’s impossible to have one CMS do everything.

If I would recommend a free one, it’d be Joomla or Mambo. WordPress is very limiting in my opinion and would never work for web development - it’s great for blogs and should be kept to specialize in that territory (CMS do differ from territory to territory… wait until you need a CMS to do eCommerce or complex portfolios and you’ll see what I mean).

Also, it’s hard to tell which sites are static and which are dynamic sometimes. For example, (I can’t include company name) but I know a company that uses a CMS that creates pages dynamically, using the best technology, but if you viewed the source of the web sites it creates you would never have guessed it to be dynamic. It’s hard to judge a book by its cover, even now-a-days. There are a lot of languages out there and they output differently.

2. Does anybody want static web sites any more?

Yes, you’d be surprised.

Tara, it’s best to start with building static sites and being very comfortable with HTML and CSS. Having taught at various colleges in different Web Design and Development courses, I’ve had many students coming from Print Design and switching over to Web. Our curriculum was built in teaching them HTML and CSS first, then a theoretical course on Programming concepts, then JavaScript, and only afterwards scripting languages like PHP, ColdFusion, ASP, etc.

There is a point in such a structure, it’s not so much learning the languages, but the whole concept behind them.

Print can be perceived as a pretty static concept, so a more organic transition for Graphic designers would be learning static web sites first, and then slowly switch your brain into a quite different gear.

I’m also a more PRO “getting hands dirty” approach in building sites by hand-coding HTML in a text editor rather than using WYSIWYG eitors, like DW. Same thing with learning PHP - it’s much better learning it from scratch and building even simple dynamic pages, writing a simple code, and go from there, instead of tweaking bits of code in a CMS (be it WP, Joomla, or anything else).

Regarding your question about which CMS is better - there is no such thing as a perfect CMS, you chose the right tool for the job, and the one you find easier to use.

There’s an excellent site with the list of ALL open source CMS, where you can try each of the applications free of charge by going to demo sites - no need for installation, nothing. http://www.opensourcecms.com/
Go there, check them out and see which one you personally find user friendly.

And of course, let me know if you have any questions
Good Luck!

Wow, thanks for the fantastic response everybody and all the advice. I guess its back to the drawing board for me as the overwhelming response seems to be learn static sites first . You always want to run before you can walk don’t you . I am hoping the Open University Course I start next month will force me to build a static site bay hand coding. Sorry for not replying to everyone individually it all went a bit manic yesterday afternoon.

Ahsan - sorry about your comment getting deleted, I did change the spam catcha because I was having trouble with the previous one. Without the spam catcha I just get tons of spam, but I am open to suggestion of a better one?

Rachael - Thanks for your suggestion on how to get round the spam problem

I just get tons of spam

Do you have the akismet / bad behavious plugins installed? They’re supposed to be good for catching spam.

You always want to run before you can walk don’t you

YUP! But in this day an age, it’s easy to learn to run once you’ve got the walking part down. Two years ago I didn’t know an img tag from my elbow, and here I am today working on my own PHP blogging script.

Once you’ve got the basics down and know them SOLIDLY, everything else will drop right into place and it’ll suddenly make sense.

Good luck with your OU course.

Hi Rachael - yes I use akismet which is great, but I was still getting a fair bit of spam (A lot of it got held for moderation) but with the extra anti spam I get hardly any.

Rachael - forgit to ask - how did you learn PHP please - books, college?

Well here’s how i started, and I think i went the right way about it:
First, Static design. Nice pretty, css pages.
Then, start taking apart wordpress themes (they’re by far the easiest) to get to know how they work
Only after that can you make yours from scratch.
And then post it to the world! Unless, of course, it’s your own site’s theme.

Tara - the best way to learn PHP is probably the same as learning HTML/CSS, by searching online for tutorials and whatnot. The official PHP.net site is incredibly useful too with lenghtly discussion topics on every single function in PHP. www.webmonkey.com has some good tutorials on just about every web technology out there. If you’re a stumbleuponner it’s useful adding HTML related topics to your search as it can throw up some decent sites.

Hi Nathan, thanks for you comment - I think it may be a while before I release a Wordpress theme to the world

Cheers Dan, I had never thought about using stumbleupon for this sort of thing I will try it.

And when you get around to your dynamic sites, I suggest Macromedia Dreamweaver 8 with ASP, ColdFusion, and PHP. It’s how I learned to integrate database interaction with PHP. It’s easy to follow and the step by step instructions are great! I’m not much of one for learning things through books (I like someone to show me how to do it) but this one is an exception.

Thanks Lauren - another one for my Amazon list

I personally don’t program. I build the pages in dreamweaver and then contract out the programming.

My suggestion is to find a PHP (linux server) programmer and an ASP (windows server) programmer or company that you trust. The thing I’ve had to learn is how to make my sites ready for them to plug in the back end programming.

I’m doing this right now with http://www.phyllisbrowning.com, but it’s a little more complicated than that.

I’m working with an ASP programmer, a designer, and another programmer who knows an old version of ASP and learning the new, and I’m doing the graphics and some designing.

There is no way that I would be able to get in there and program this site…or any of the ones I’ve worked on like this. My brain doesn’t work like that.

Now, at some point, probably next yar, I’m planning on learning some basic stuff. I’d like to be able to program my own email forms, newsletters, mailing lists, ecards, drop down menus and possibly a simple CMS without having to contract it out. Oh, and learn some database stuff.

There’s quite a bit of source code out there that you can download for free or for pay to plug into your site and see how it works, but coding is not html.

It’s more like ActionScripting in Flash.

I suggest newbies learning what their brain can handle, but you will benefit most from knowing how to design and build staic sites. They are the easiest to sell and produce, but if you can integrate programming, great. It’s a rare breed that can do both.

I know one guy who can, but his problem is working really, really late hours and running out of time.

Oops, you’ll have to take out the comma at the end of the url on my last post, or use this one:

http://www.phillisbrowning.com

jorge

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informative write-up,start from what u can on you own in a creative way but for me i would vote for Dynamic website.